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PHEV plug-in hybrids
Plug-in hybrids are just what they sound like: a gasoline-engine hybrid
vehicle that has a battery that can be plugged in for recharging fuel economy. They
are being designed to handle a commuter-type range (20 to 60 miles) on
just their electric charge, with the internal combustion engine
providing valuable backup. Plug-in hybrids will help to provide a
stepping-stone for folks who aren’t able to utilize all-electric cars
due to their shortened range.
Add this up, If you install a solar grid tied system you can also get a plug-in hybrid or even an electric car. Then the solar system pays off 4 times or more faster.
Why ?, because you can use 80 cents of electric power which equals a gallon of gas at $3.50 or diesel at 4.50 . And rising,
you do the math, it's a great dela and saves the world. wind or small hydro could also work depending on your area.
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And if we use small electric space heaters run on Net Metered electricity, the savings go up even faster.
The only negative comment I have is that in a short time there will be energy parity pricing between electricity, oil, and gas. The future is bleak in this respect.
I hate having to beat the drum of doom-n-gloom to get folks interested in my solar technology, but apparently that is what it takes to get noticed.
I ran some of those thoughts on another board Monday and I've been inundated with inquiries... Perhaps some will be legit???
these are very efficient and nice. They also have a full electric version.
The only problem is you can only buy them in California so far. They have actually put them in production yet, but it would be real nice and maybe be a key to new offers in the future.
They also may win the automotive X-Prize.
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You can now place a firm order for a plugin hybrid from A123-hymotion.
This can make your home solar system pay off 4 times faster. Displacing oil/gas with electric. When you plug in it's about 80 cents for the energy for a Prius to go 50 miles vs gas at $3.50 and rising !
No pollution, no water use, no problem.
https://www.a123systems.com/hymotion/products/reserve_yours
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Check out the Aptera at http://www.aptera.com/details.php
This hybrid gets over 230mpg at a steady 55mph. Technically, it is a 3 wheeled motorcycle with room for 2.5 peeps and luggage in a 3 door hatchback set up. Looks right out of a sci fi movie. Sweet looking car, check it out.
JD
The San Diego Electric Vehicle group will have info at their next meeting on plug-in hybrids Sept 25th.
Next Meeting: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 @ 7 p.m. (the 4th Tuesday)
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The batteries you have heard exploding - aka thermal runaway aka lava - are the lithium ion oxide ones used in laptops. Valence and A123 use a different technology - lithium ion phosphate - which are not known to have such problems. For example, Valence have had their batteries in Segways for years with no such problems of which I am aware.
Interesting,
With so many new technologie emerging, it is best approach to add the best and most proven systems all in one. I have been researching this approach from start, and there one thing I had learned is that there is no perfect fuel alternative, even with all electric hybrids, there are safety concerns by emergency workers, so best to put all the best in one system.
The solar roof system shows promise, along with capacitor systems along with more advanced batter back ups and more efficient electric motors, then combine it with hydrogen injection, and if we had more clean diesels with new direct injection like the German companies are using, then use hydrogen, and running on biodiesel, now we would be talking about the cleanest and most economical and most powerful vehciles on the road.
Mike
Billy345 I don't think you got your answer on hybrids compared to the new CDI clean bio-diesel vehicles.
Judge for yourself with a few of this items.
Can the bio-diesel stop idling at the light or stop signs ? (NO)
Can it shut down it's motor when at spped or slowing down ? (NO)
Can it use regenerative braking and recapture that energy to run with ? (NO)
No, so far only a full hybird can do all those great things. Someday a series bio-diesel hybrid will come out and do those and run on clean diesel. Thta will be a real fair comparision. Until then I feel the full hybrid like the Prius has the best efficiency.
When we get plug-in hybrids they could also be made to run on bio-diesel but so far all have been gas models. They could also use injected hybridgen or E85 .
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google.org the non profit arm of google now supports hybrids and plug-in hybrids.
so far they give any employee a $5,000 incentive to buy a hybrid that gets 45 mpg or better, only the Toyota prius and honda civic can do that.
Now they are also starting a fleet of plug-in hybrids for company use.
They are working with Enterprise rent-a-car to get more good hybrids into the rental area.
They are working with A123 , the lithium battery company and hymotion the PHEV conversion company.
On top of that they just installed and turned up a 1/6 mega watt solar system on their company roof.
They partnered with PG&E the local power comapany for V2G Vehicle 2 grid power use and battery recycling.
WOW ! I am impressed.
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sure mine gets 50+ but of course I'd never drive at 80 mph risking the life of my friends.
I get 45 mpg going uphill at the absolute worst and most times 55-65 even with a car full.
The amount of soot and emissions a diesel emits is not good. If it's on bio-diesel it 50% and much better.
Until they make a series hybrid bio-diesel I can assure you the gas ful hybrid is better.
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I've heard much debate on the "true" effiecientcy of the hybrid vehicles vs. the next gen diesel cars. While a hybrid essentially stops at a red light, thus have zeor emmissions, over all it seems that the notion of efficientcy combined with the option to offset petrolium based fuel wiht BioDiesel, it's creates an interesting argument as to which is perferred. As I'm sure many of you know in Europe almost all of the cars on the road are Diesel. They run forever (litterally) and get VERY good fuel efficientcy.
Last week I was riding with a friend that has a Mercedes CDI which runs on a BioDiesel blent - the car has been "tuned" to the point that it is faster than most of the other cars on the road includeing its gasoline brother and we were cruzing on the highway at over 80 MPH averaging just under 40 MPG with 4 adults and plent of room. Don't get me wrong - I love the Hybrid but I wonder if the Hybid would have performed as well on the highway at that speed with load this car was holding - also - it was buring clean - BioDiesel so the fuel was domestically harvested and at about the same price as the petroleum based diesel -
I've also heard that the stick (vs automatic drive) diesels simply do get better fuel mileage than the hybrid. Now- as you right above - if the next gen Prium is going to get 90 MPG - REALLY not just based on what is advertised, then the debate will likely be over.
Just thougth I'd share my thoughts on the subject as it's not alway clear.
BTW - I think your info on the differnces of the Honda vs Toyota is very good - I recall someone asking this questions in one of the discussion earlier- you may want to provide some of the info above in response to that person as I'm not sure the reponses they got were as compelete as you provide above.
Keep it Green!!!
Billy -
Congradulations, I wanted to make my own PHEV but I don't want to use lead acid batteries. The first cal cars PHEV batteries only lasted about 1 year.
I think using 150 year old technology and toxic lead is not the best solution. I've been trying to get lithium batteries or a company that does conversions with them to do my vehicle. I'm very willing to pay 10-12K but so far the 3 companies doing conversions are not ready quite yet.
EnergyCS, hybrids-plus and hymotion say they should be able to offer conversions for about 10K within a year. I'll just have to wait for the best.
In 08 Toyota will make the prius with lithium batteries but no plug yet. It will get about 90 mpg. That may also be the next best choice.
PS I also have solar energy to offset my charging. Plus I pay for 8 blocks of renewable energy at 800 kwh that I doesn't even use. It keeps the power company making more clean energy until I can charge my PHEV.
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Hello, My family is happy to own the first privately owned PHEV in Texas. I have been buying parts for the conversion since November 2006 and now it is done. This is an open source project so if you want more information on how to do it yourself read about this not-for-profit company Calcars.org.
We purchase wind energy from our electric provider to charge our PHEV, so we are offsetting our fuel usage with wind and not coal. One day I hope to use solar from the roof of my home to power our car.
This is not a one size fits all solution but it is a start. I can use my car as a full electric vehicle for shopping and errands during the weekend.
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This type of hybrid needs it's own topic. Many people don't know but there are many types of hybrids. You have the lowest form millions drive called the nano hybrid where the battery and electric motor just starts the motor. That is the oldest and lowest form dating back to 1913. All modern cars use this simple starter motor.
Next you have the weak hybrids like the GM sierra pick up truck. It uses old lead acid batteries to just start and auto stop the motor at stop lights and any stop so it doesn't idle. They can also provide some AC inverter power for tools and contractors can use them.
Next you have the mild hybrids that have the electric motor assist the gas motor that really runs the vehicle. All Honda hybrids are this type and get fair mpg and reduce emissions some but can't improve a lot beyond that form.
The best are the FULL hybrids. This type can run in all electric mode for short distances and the fuel motors can run in the cleaner otto cycle. Only Toyota makes this type of hybrid. Since it can run in EV mode It can become a plug-in hybrid. Then it can get 100+ mpg.
Only a few companies are starting to make the plug-in option and offer it as a conversion to the 04 and newer Prius. They are EnergyCS, hybrids-plus and hymotion. They all use advanced lithium batteries which are better for the environment and have more energy and can use more of it than other batteries. This is the key to better mpg.
To prove how good the Toyota system is look at sales of the Prius and you see it outsells others 3 to 1. It also sells the last generation of this great system to FORD and Nissan. When your good your real good.
In 2008 Toyota plans to be the first hybrids with lithium batteries. This can produce 90 mpg without yet plugging in. I feel this will make a waiting list of 2 to 4 years just like the first Prius. I also think they will next offer a plug and a few more battery options.
So why plug-in you may ask. Well electric cost about 80 cents for a gallon of energy. You can fill up at home over night using peak energy at 1/2 that price with no new power plants required. You can install solar on your home and help off set peak demand in the day and charge back off peak running your meter back.
The US now imports over 60% of our oil. This one type vehicle could help reduce that import , increase homeland security and reduce pollution. Not to mention save you money. How could you not want to plug in while you sleep.
These vehicles would allow us to capture more off peak wind and hydro power. As they improve we could get 200 even 300 mpg in the next generation of vehicles.
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