EMF's in Electric Vehicles

rawmarcos
Hey Folks,
I was on gliving today and a friend was sharing with me some frightening information about emf testing they did in a hybrid vehicle. The numbers that came up were off the charts. I've tried searching on this info before but come up with limited to no info. Has anyone else here done any research on the emf's being thrown out by electric vehicles? As Burke said, if not we're just putting ourselves into a large solar cooker. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Marcos


Bytesmiths
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

Inexpensive EMF meters will not read high frequency EMF -- they are optimized for 60Hz fields used in AC power distribution.

The control circuits in electric vehicles operate at frequencies thousands of times higher, which cannot be detected by inexpensive EMF meters.

But don't take my word for it; stick your meter right next to a cell phone that's pumping several watts of electromagnetic radiation right into your head! It will register nothing. 



jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

If you are more than 3 feet away from the Inverters you are very safe. When I measured my Solar DC to AC inverters located outside on the North side of my house the EMF dropped off after just 1 foot away. 

 

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greengirl
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

So, what does anyone know about EMF or ELF radiation from an inverter (solar DC to household AC)? I'm hoping the wiring in the unit is done in such a way that induced frequencies damp each other out. Forgive me if my terminology is wrong. Any data would be appreciated.



jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

BB, What meter did you use ?  Did you measure harmful AC EMF or DC magnetic EMF ? What vehicles did you check ?

Facts are the basis of true knowledge. General statements are dangerous.

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Burke Bryant
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

Great thread here. I actually did some readings with a friend about 13 months ago. We tested several cars, Suv's etc. both idling at at speeds and found that 99.9% of them were over a reading of 4mg's in some instances 6+. This took place mainly at the foot peddles as well as the back seat. This became a concern in the fact that infants may be particularly prone to temporal noise that can interfere with the initial calibration of brain networks such as the mirror neuron system. The most likely source of temporal noise in the environment is artificially generated electromagnetic radiation. Thus the children, infants in this case ride in the back seat. Furthermore it is also specualted that EMF's are perhaps the leading cause of autism in children today.  I know that this concern is in fact on the rise. Several companies have began working on the development of EMF blankets that will, with hope, become a standay in most "electric" cars in the near future. "Niken" is one of the companies currently working on this technology. The blanket will act like a firewall, it's purpose will be to block out the EMF's whether large or small. The fact is they are there, and they are harmfull in any amount. This combined with the EMF's we are already being bombarded with on a regular basis provide nothing but a recipe for disaster.... and perhaps cancer??? who knows where the research has stopped, or halted for a lack of better words.

As for the readings, the cars and the meter. I can't honestly give the exact details to my readings, and giving them will not make my write-up any stronger as far as I'm concerned, but I do recall the concern, and the above mg points I read in the cars. I faced a difficult problem back then when I became aware of the readings.. do I tell others and give the gas cars the ammunition they look for to keep a ever polluting vechicle on the road, or stay somewhat silent about it and let the problme take care of itself.....

Regards,

Burke Bryant



jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

Right you are. Even a dumb old gas ICE car would die, if we had a large electrical pulse wipe out electronics devices.  We have electronic ignition in almost every car in the last 10 years. Only my bicycle would keep going just like normal but my speedometer  would stop.

  Bach on the more realist EMF, I have studied this since the 90's . I just want facts instead of vague articles. The only EV I ever checked that was poor was the EV1. My Prius has the batteries and DC wiring in the back so I can't see how anyone with any meter would read a thing there. EMP is mostly from AC power and AC motors, like a fan whick I have read.

  The hybrid AC motors are under the hood like the ICE and not very close to the passengers. Now a pure AC electric like the Tesla and eBox many be more like the EV1. I'd love to test one. I

I found a few sites that have EMF meters, from about $100 to $800. There are AC and DC meters. Mine is AC since I read that was the only one that affects human health.

http://www.lessemf.com/gauss.html

http://www.lessemf.com/dcgauss.html

  

 

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DC
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

I have read several other posts on the Internet in which people have measured emf levels in their hybrid cars. There does not seem to be any consistency in their findings, even for the same model cars. The car companies that test emf levels need to disclose their test data. It would also be nice if some consumer group would have hybrid emf levels tested by an independent lab. Baring those things, I don't know how this confusion is going to be resolved, and the rumors of emf dangers will continue to grow and could hurt the electric car industry.



Charley
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

On a slight tangent, I was wondering what would happen to our electric cars if there was an EMP pulse.  I know that we'd have bigger fish to fry if that happens, but my assumption with a basic understanding of electronics would be that our electric vehicles would be rendered completely unusable.  Now if the electromagnetic pulse was great enough all of our cars would be unusable as would most electronics, but with a minor EMP pulse I assume electric vehicles would be the first to go.



jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

DC please point us to the other posts. What do they use to measure ? What standard do they use to say it's unsafe ? A few facts are worth thousands of general notes with no facts.

Please give us some facts, Refer us to links of these statements.  Don't spread unfounded rumors.

My meter is a Bel Merit EF22. 0-199.9 mG milli Gaus, bandwidth 30 to 300 hz , single axis.

The standard of safety is the swedish TCO. Here's a fact sheet on EMF

http://www.lhc.org.uk/members/pubs/factsht/52fact.htm 

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DC
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

Jstack, I was not trying to spread unfounded rumors -- my intent was just the opposite. If I gave the impression that I thought there was a problem with emf levels in hybrids, I did not mean to, and I apologize. What I meant to say was that I have seen several posts on this subject on Internet message boards, etc. in which car owners have tested emf levels, and these posts are often conflicting, just as the discussion between you and someone else earlier in this thread. Someone with a hybrid will say he tested his car and found absolutely no problems, while someone else will claim the opposite. Here are a couple of them -- I express no opinion as to their accuracy:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/honda_insight.html

http://www.topix.net/forum/autos/toyota/T4MCIKA8C4G3UMQ8U

What I have not seen on the Internet or anywhere else is any SCIENTIFIC DATA showing exactly what emf levels on hybrids are. I suspect that the reason that people are finding different emf levels in their hybrids is that they have varying levels of expertise and are using varying types of testing equipment and/or methods -- some of which may be more accurate than others. With all due respect to owners who are testing their cars, I would like to see some safety data on this issue from physicists who have conducted carefully controlled tests in laboratory settings using precision instruments specifically designed to measure emfs in cars. There is a history in my family of people dying young from cancer, and there is just only so much comfort I can take from data obtained from regular people testing their cars with inexpensive gaussmeters. My hunch is that there's probably little or no risk from hybrid emfs, but I want to see some hard data on the subject, and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for it.

I really don't mean to offend anyone, and I hope I haven't. I think it's great for people to test their own cars, but I think the car companies have a responsibility to provide the public with their emf testing data. I believe this data would show that hybrids are safe, and it would put to rest all of these discussions. I don't know why the compainies haven't been more forthcoming and open about this information. If anyone has seen any scientific data on this subject please provide the links.

 



RKS
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

DC.,

I'm all for greener vehicles however all of your comments are right on.  I've been involved with a lot of EMF vehicle testing as of late and can share some information with you.

Hybrid vehicles generate both AC and DC (Static) EMF.  The levels are much higher than traditional ICE equipped vehicles.  The issue lies in the interpretation of the data and it's effects on human health.  The latest report on EMF is located at:

>http://www.bioinitiative.org/report/index.htm

In my opinion, the conclusions put forth in the report would by inference clearly cause one to question the safety of prolonged EMF exposure experienced whilst in a powered up hybrid vehicle. 

There are no regulations in North America for occupant exposure levels to EMF in vehicles so no automakers are currently breaking the law.  However, potential purchasers should be allowed to make informed decisions based on the available data.  If you are given the MPG of a vehicle shouldn't you also be allowed to see EMF levels? Do with the data what you will, if you can find it.  Governments need to make automakers disclose the information or make the test data available through the DOE. (Department of Energy) in the U.S. (Testing a vehicle for EMF professionally can cost upwards of $4,000 U.S.)

I don't care that people want to debate the relevance of EMF levels on human health. (We used to debate cigarette smoke and asbestos didn't we?)  Give me the test results and I'll make up my own mind.

 

 

 

 

 

 



Mike
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

Even though I believe the car makers have accurate emf data on hybrid vehicles it will probably never be released. Doing so would bring validity to the conversation about the dangers of certain types of long-term emf exposure. We will need to continue to conduct our own emf testing.

Mike

http://pugetsoundemftesting.com



jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

I know my meter works well and the swedish TOC standard I used. I also know the reading on high power lines and the EV1 were real.

I'd like to know what the other meter was , who did the test and what standard they used. Mine is in milli gaus. The readings are one's I do eveyplace I go and in every car.

Who, what and when on the other test ? Perhaps it was a rumor started by big oil companies. Let the tester and method stand and identify themself 

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rawmarcos
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles
That's interest jstack because the vehicle I was speaking of was a toyota prius and the numbers, which I don't have, were off the chart for the back seat where one would seat travelling companions and even children. This should be a major alarm to all of us. The fact that you tested one and it came up safe and a friend tested another and it was ridiculously high. This means there isn't a high quality check for emf's coming off the assembly line. I hope that Tesla and Phoenix Motor cars are reading this thread and beating us to the finish line. I'd hate to purchase a PMC SUV only to discover that high EMF levels are present. I mean, shouldn't the idea of electric cars combine comfort, energy efficiency, and safety in mind? I would think that this would be at the forefront for the independent auto makers. I'm not so sure about the big boys.
Marcos


jstack6
jstack6's picture
Re: EMF's in Electric Vehicles

I check every hybrid and EV I drive or ride in. I use a Frey's electronics EMP meter about 50 buucks. I also check things around home and at work.

The meters tells about the swedish T.C.O.  standard of 2 milli gaus or higher for prolonged times is very bad. Only in the EV1 did I measure 8-24 mg, right in the fron t seats (it's only a 2 seater). Very bad.

In hybrids I measure nothing even in the front or back of a Honda and Totota are clean.

Power lines are very bad. Under them I have read over 100 milli gaus. In our area of Gilbert AZ the power company lets people jog and walk under the high power lines. I have seen mothers with small children and babies in stollers. I stop and show them my meter and readings. It's a crime.

Vehicles so far are not a problem. Watch out for high power lines !!

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