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Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
And when you grow the same stuff next year it will cost $40 a lb because the water costs more to pump with more expensive oil, and the fertilizer is made from natural gas which is priced with oil, and the rubber gloves are made from more expensive oil..........
Take oil out of the equation and the prices stay the same.
--And I think I've got a solution for Community Governance that even you are going to like - coming soon.
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
I can't find any recipes...
So I stopped by the butcher dept at my local grocery store looking for a recipe card. I didn't find one there either. Then I asked the meat ckerk. He pointed me to the sign that said 'pork'. Then he told me he thought the closest thing to 'ground hog' would be 'plain sausage meat', because they don't grind anything in the store anymore.
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
After a needed haitus, I am back,
Joseph,
Corn is by no means and in any way shape or form, sustainable. I have been preaching this to anyone who stood still long enough for the last three years. Yield and final output ratios are not there, no matter how its sliced or spun.
As far as tobacco and junk food is concerned, we live in these United States where this crap is king. Unless the masses experienced mass enlightenment or epiphanies, this "problem" will not go away for a LONG time.
As I see it corn will have a short shelf life when it comes to being a viable biofuel. monies have been invested and perpetuation is almost guaranteed to meet return quotas. Then and only then will corn based fuel fall by the wayside.
Good idea initially and well intentioned, however, yet again no foresight.
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
Dried corn is used by many rural inhabitants as fuel for furnaces. It is grown with subsidies and is an untaxed benefit. With the increase in the price of oil, the direct corn heating system is less expensive. Never mind the ethanol problem, expensive oil really affects the whole economy.
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
Charley,
Excellent point. In fact OUR government actaullly pays farmers NOT to grow corn and adds money in subsidies to farmers in the WRONG places. If we removed the subsidies it would help a lot. If they would add a short term (1-2 year) subsidy to not grow tabacco and instead grow sugar cane, sugar beats or switch grass we could make lots of ethanol bio-fuel with no pain.
A few local companies are even growing agae using solar energy in the form of natural heat with great results for a fuel. The yeild so far shows number that would make an SUV driver never want to slow down under 90 mpg. We still have to improve vehicles, , have any diverse fuels and do it sustainable.
the solar stacks
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
Sure, millions of 3rd worlders will starve. More corrupt banana republics and petty dictators will oppresss their populations.
The US economy which is circling the bowl will continue to deteriorate, and we'll ship in more "aid" and take on more 3rd world debt, while our own currency falls like a twirling knife. (aint no one gonna catch it)
As the newest colony of China, we'll continue sending raw materiale to the new "mother country" and buying finished goods in return...
Until the population get's completely fed up with their colonial "overlords" aka government pawns, and the 2nd American revolution resets things to the glory that once was the America I remember.
In the late 1770's the brits prosecuted colonists that had copies of the Declaration of Independence in their posession. I wonder if my harddisk is safe from prying eyes today?
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
So why doesn't anyone cry about tobacco crops taking up land and fertilizer and water yet not being food ?
Why would Biofuels be the problem yet we also make mega tons of corn frucouse syrups that are killing us with bad nutrician.
If you stand back and look at the entire problem it's not Bio-fuels. It dumb things we have done for years without a wimper. Well I won't be quiet about it. The real problems are junk food, and tobacco. Plain and simple.
the solar stacks
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
Like it or not, tobacco is a profitable crop. Besides the total acreage of tobacco is minuscule, even when compared to "luxury" crops like sweet corn, which is 100% human food.
You said it "mega-tons" of HFCS. Don't forget the millions of tons of rice, wheat and corn that go for beer! The issue with those is that their demands have been pretty well established over many decades of sales data. While the uses may be "decadent" the demand is not disruptive.
A vehicle uses more Calories/BTH in an hour than a person does in a week, or a livestock animal does in a day or two. That makes the demand disruptive.
In a pure free market economy I'd welcome the disruption as an event that helps find a new equilibrium. But government subsidies prevent the market from operating efficiently. Chaos is a far more likely outcome, than a new equilibrium.
Blaming tobacco and ADM is a red herring. Trashing all farm subsidies, would *really* fix the problems in the shortest possible time! Sure prices would spike for a season, but they would easily stabilize at 50% or less than current inside of 2 years. And we'd have greater abundances too, which we could export.
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
Interesting viewpoint... The only thing I would say in response would be that while junk food, and tobacco are taking up the potential resources for food I'm still concerned with the time factor to resolve those. The farmers obviously made the switch to growing for biofuels fairly quickly. I'm only worried that the amount of time it would take to replant what are today's tobacco and "junk food" oriented waste of land to plant for food for the hungry. It seems to me that there should be some global consideration for the decision factors of what to grow beyond just the scope of national concerns or there will potentially be an epidemic of starvation around the world.
- Charley
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
Charley,
I'm sure you mean well by suggesting farmers plant food for the hungry... And that decisions to plant whatever are based on the global need...
But do you realize what you're suggesting? Communism, on a global scale! I for one won't let a statement like that slide. Who gets to decide what crops & how much are needed & where? Who gets stuck growing the low value crops like millet & potatoes?
Every farmer should be free to grow what they want without subsidies, and according to what the free market demands! That means if some fool farmer wants to plant 100,000 acres of tobacco & flood the market at $0.0001/lb then he can try and be allowed to fail his farm. If ADM can grow corn cheaper than anyone else without subsidies, then they should. As demand pulls prices up, supply will follow.
Truth is *everybody* wins, some win more, and some will fail, those that fail will adapt or die. Sounds perfectly natural to me.
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
We grow tobacco up in Canada where the sun don't shine much. It's a weed that will grow in soil that will not support anything else. It's full of nicotine which kills bugs and it's a controlled substance. Growing it is a no-brainer, but then it gets tricky. Tobacco farmers can't find labour to pick the stuff and the buyers are real fussy and you could get stuck with moldy product.
Farmers really can't switch from one crop to another. It usually requires a bank loan and a re-education. Larger farms have specialized in a single crop to appreciate economies of scale.
Potatoe farmers for example are serfs for the chip industry giants who supply the seed and buy the crops.
Then we have the Agricultural Stabilization Act which protects the farmer by guaranteeing him a price for his product - the average price over the past 5 years - and protects the consumer when prices are high by importing product. The farmer is effectively excluded from the benefits of real market forces.
Food prices are up because oil price is up. Believe me please. Take oil out of the equation and it will cost you the same to grow a carrot in your back garden as it did last year.
Re: Food Prices Up - A Result of Biofuels?
Hey athena, [i'm still not ignoring you] ;^)
Dad used to grow veggies in the back yard. Just for grins I divided the
the summer water bill by the yield and discovered the produce was
costing me ~$15/lb.
Since the garden was his hobby, I'm certain he spent at least as
much on seed, fertilizer, gloves, border, tools, etc. not to mention
the labor...
I don't care how sensitive your palate is, there's no such thing as a $30/lb cucumber or zucchini!
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I saw an interesting article on CNN today that discusses the rising cost of food as a result of the farmers switching to growing food for biofuels rather than for food. This appears to be a hot topic with my friends that are not particularly supportive to green efforts. They and this article suggest that millions of people will starve as a result of switching the focus to biofuel growing rather than food. I'm curious what you all think.
U.N. expert: Food crisis 'a silent tsunami'
- Joseph